MOSCOW, May 12 (RIA Novosti)
Russia is testing Italy's Centauro wheeled tank and considering building it under license, a representative of the Oto-Melara company which makes the tank said on Saturday.
"The first two machines with 105-mm and 125-mm guns are on trial at a Moscow Region proving ground," he said.
Two more Centauros with 120-mm and 30-mm guns will also join the trials in another six weeks. "The tanks will take part in laboratory, driving and firing trials," the Oto-Melara representative said.
When the trials are complete at the end of this year, Russia will consider creating a joint venture for production of the tank with an enterprise from the Russian military-industrial complex, he said.
Russian truck maker Kamaz in Naberezhny Chelny could be involved in the deal, according to a source in Russian arms sales holding Rosoboronexport.
Commenting on the report that Russia is considering building Centauro tanks under license, Yury Borisov, first deputy head of the military-industrial commission, said Russia will only buy foreign weapon models on a one-off basis to study the manufacturing technology and then set up its own production.
A number of military experts earlier said licensed production of those machines in Russia is unlikely.
Russia signed a deal with Italy in December for the semi-knocked down assembly of 60 Lynx light multirole armored vehicles (LMV) from Iveco, Deputy Defense Minister Alexander Sukhorukov said in January.
Oto-Melara, part of the Italian Finnmeccanica group, is part of the CIO joint venture with vehicle manufacturer Iveco to make military vehicles.
Italy already has 400 Centauros in service. The 24 ton tank has a four-man crew, top speed of 100 km/h (60 mph) and range of 800 km (500 miles). It has a main gun and two 7.62 mm machineguns.
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- SolidSatanI dont understand14:22, 12/05/2012WHY ?????????????
- federicorianovosti@solidsatan15:16, 12/05/2012because they're high-quality BTRs and probably Russia doesn't own such level of technology...moreover Russia and Italy have friendly relations so maybe it's a matter of diplomacy too
- CCCPFreak@federicorianovosti17:01, 12/05/2012Why you call it is good? "high qualitiy?" cause of what? Russia is more Far in BTR developing, cause italians never fight against real enemy after WW2? 0 fights 0 losses!? Russian tech EVERY TIME FIGHT!
Russia CAN produce more quality if theay want. PRODUCE more new machines, use Nano technology! Use new Materials! Better Controlling! On the fly Optimation! But Pay more money for workes an engineers!
I know the goverment was PAID TO BUY THIS!
It is totally stupid use Forign technology!
Friend or Foe systems must change, it is stupid to export the same surface Tech, we see it in georgia when those semi fashist Georgian troops kill russian Soldiers and civilists. And russian Bombers do not acknowlege "Friendly" viewing SAMs.
2 Produktion Lines for Parts? They will be 10 times more expensive.
3. I bet they use this 105 MM nato caliber 20 times more costs for ammo
4. Point 2&3 you must import NATO (enemy) Ammo and parts.
Do it like chinese copy and improve that technologi that is now in the army.
Unifing Plattform i hear from russian army and now buy foregin ENEMY tech!
The soviet union do it nearly right, when their was better tech they copy! But Nearly every time Nato copy, i say Smoothbare cannons.........
- lmStupidity and more stupidity and more stupidity, Russia has become the laughing stock of International politics and decison making.18:52, 12/05/2012For all those who do not understand Russia foreign policy do not waste time trying because a big very big stick is lodge in the Kremlin ears. You or I even foreign diplomats do not understand them and why so simple because they have self inflected mental slavery of inferiority to themselves, which has reach to the top of the defense ministry.
Middle men bleeding the defense ministry dry, another thing seems quite likely military men in high office in Russia are making dirty money from wanting to buy outside.
Do you think they care what we write here no they do not.
The Kremlin is suffering from a very serious disease of inferiority it will continue so unless they make a serious u-turn and start believing in their people’s ability to deliver.
All the Kremlin do is talk just talk.
- SirkoCome on...!!! This has to be a JOKE...!!!20:18, 12/05/2012Russia may not be good at making Ferraris but who cares. When it comes to weapons system they have always been second to none. When did the Soviets pay western pilots to defect from the west.
You are dead on that high ranking officials have and are being bought off. Where is Papa Joe to clean out the rot???
One look at that tanks say it all, from its inferior armour to its rubber tires. No doubt it is gas powered?? :-)...The only superior military technology the Italians are capable of is the factory which produces 'white flags'....:-)
- SirkoCorrection...00:13, 13/05/2012Above should read, 'Why did the Soviets not pay western pilots to defect with fighter jets?" But the Americans bribed North Koreans and Syrians to defect with Soviet planes. Wasit because they wanted to look at inferior planes??
- lmLack of political will and leadership.16:03, 13/05/2012This is just it Russians are easily brought off; to this day it still exist.
It’s amazing to hear the trivial issues that plague the defense ministry and its supply’s, Russia arms supply’s are less honest and patriotic and rotten to the core. This may be an unfair statement I agree but just as a sport team the head always gets blame for the performance of the team, Russian decision making process when it comes to their security is loaded with treats, procrastinations, and indecisions.
An example if Russia has to build a ship, refit, or buy the decision to do so is loaded with needless talking so we have a decision to build a ship taking effect 10years later, now in some cases this maybe unavoidable but not at the rate it happens in Russia. Now they are looking outwards running away from corrections back home, but mark my words the time will come when this will back fire big time on Russia when the Kremlin refuse to toe the West line.
Until the Kremlin make meaningful adjustments to fight these bastards in high places that only embarrass Russia the satiation will remain the same. There are ships, planes and submarines laid up awaiting a decision for refit which seems a millions years off because of the procrastinate nature of decision making and infighting that only serves as cancer to the defense and military industrials complex.
- jjjiplz close comments section in rian07:05, 14/05/2012here are we again only western idiots arguing about they know russia.
This is so retarded whats so hard to understand?? Russia doesnt buy up some tanks but the production and technology. It will be assembled in russia and the engineers have some new technology to check to make a better russian tank in the next years?? China would be glad if they could buy up european technology, russia can so they will defiantly make use of it.
- lmHi13:29, 14/05/2012Dear JJJI,
Please don’t get upset we are not all idiots, but just want Russia to do more and stand up and be counted.
Look lets be frank here Russia need to assets its foreign policy for more that one reason.
The tank its not about technology and assemble in Russia, but perceived justification that can and will damage Russia, Russia should know and must know that buying from outside can never be in Russia favour be it technology or what. The thing is that many military and middle men has vested interest in doing so they do not care who gets goes down just their pockets and that is a fact which is hard to swallow. Russia has an educated society, intelligent people and a beautiful country one just has to look at RT doc and one can see all Russia in it splendid beauty.
Russia must not buy from outside Russia must do what it takes and do it by themselves because and I am 100% sure the Kremlin knows this will back fire in the long run foreign military equipments.
- arsanlupinThat makes perfect sense to me -03:03, 15/05/2012but then I actually READ the article. Apparently most of this rabble is too blinded by their anti-West bigotry to read long enough to see the obvious. Also, unlike some people who only saw Russia from the photos in government-sponsored websites, I've actually been there several times. I’ve lived there among the people, and I’ve seen both the good and the bad.
It's obvious to anyone who can get past this ultra-nationalistic drivel that, when any agency public or private wants to learn something, they go to whatever acknowledged expert they can find to do business with and purchase the training and knowledge. Rogozin himself acknowledged that Russia was at least 12 years behind the West in a lot of technical and industrial expertise – and I suspect it’s actually greater. In all the time I spent in Russia, Ukraine, Moldova, and Transnistria, everything I saw proved it. In Desert Storm, even the 1960’s-era M-60 tanks used by the US Marines went through the Republican Guards’ armored formation like they were tissue paper. Russia needs to improve the quality of their manufacturing sector, and the only way to do it is to learn how from someone who already did it. There is no other choice – none at all.
- free_mind50(no title)09:14, 14/05/2012there is no harm in purchasing the tiger studying it and incorporating its effective elements into your own system. However this is nothing more that a mirror stryker and they don't have good reputations
- lmNo hard feelings arsanlupin cheers.20:13, 15/05/2012Dear arsanlupin,
The issue here is not about Russia engaging in a one off manufacturing technology as you have stated in your post.
It goes far deeper that just acquiring technology the repercussion from such a venture will be felt. Russia has to resist in the temptation of going aboard and invest in its own know how. You must know that Russia public relation is always attacked 95% unfairly. What we want to see and I am sure many would like to see also is Russia standing up strong and not opening itself to ambiguities.
To many people in high places in the military just open there mouth and say things that just make them look unprofessional.
- arsanlupinI'm not sure I understand your point04:29, 16/05/2012I understand you think that Russia shouldn't seek outside expertise; but I cannot understand what you think would be the goal of such technological isolationism. What would be the goal you perceive in such an attempt? ALL other countries seek some of their defense technology from outside their own borders. Even the USA has foreign technology in its military – from the Berretta M93 9mm pistol to the Rolls-Royce engines for the V-22 tilt-rotor aircraft. And both the USA and NATO have been paying billions of Euros to Russia every year to transport cargo and equipment into and out of Afghanistan. So I guess my question is “what’s the problem with this?”
I must ask you to explain your statements "Russia has to … invest in its own know-how", "Russia's public relations are always attacked 95% unfairly", and "not opening itself to ambiguities". I'm not challenging any of these statements; I'm only requesting clarification.
And if you want to take our conversation “off-line” you are welcome to write me privately @ gmail.com. I grow weary of the Bolshevik children and conspiracy theory addicts here.
- lmAll best Russia do more stand up.....08:02, 16/05/2012I guess most of us here want to see Russia stand up, engaged in a more direct foreign policy that greatly reduces the ambiguities, more to reduce the negative perception even in the face of a continued bias when reports are aired in the West, do more to fight corruption and hazing in the military, show a determination in protecting its interest and its people, less talk more actions, reduce the procrastination in decision making, Russia is a beautiful country.
- arsanlupinI agree with most of what you say ...04:34, 18/05/2012... particularly the problems of corruption and hazing in the military. I too know Russia is a beautiful country - I've been to the former Soviet Union many times. I have seen both its beauty and its problems with my own eyes. I’ve lived among the people – not in hotels but in apartments – and I’ve made many friends. I’ve spoken to many of the people – and more importantly I’ve listened to them. I count as one of my closest friends a man who retired as a captain 2nd rank after 35 years in the Soviet Navy. (Can you imagine those conversations?) How many people in this comments section can honestly say that?
I guess what I'm not understanding from you is this: how is the idea of purchasing non-Russian technological knowledge an anathema to the concepts you say are so important? You seem far too intelligent to think that all of Russia’s technological and industrial capacity is superior to any in the rest of the world – or that all of it was locally sourced. You must know that the obtaining of Western technology of military significance was a prime mission of the KGB’s First Chief Directorate. To this day, SVR operatives have been found in almost every Russian commercial enterprise on foreign soil worldwide. What’s the difference? Espionage is an uncertain, time-consuming, and expensive endeavor – especially when a particular goal is specified. When possible, it’s a LOT faster and cheaper to just BUY it – then adapt it to local use as others observed China has been doing of Russian designs. This tank is far from the first – and it is far from the last.
No one country can be the best at everything – it is disputable that any one country can be the best at any ONE thing! In this Global Village that is 21st century Earth, the planet is slowly becoming more and more homogeneous – the best efforts of ultra-nationalists, neo-Nazi skinheads, and paranoid delusional Canadians notwithstanding. While national identity can be a good thing, it is easy to carry it too far and expect – or demand – one’s particular homeland to perform at some superhuman pace. And is that fair to anyone – including the Russian people? Considering what the people of the former Soviet Union had to endure over the centuries – particularly between 1917 and 1991, I think it’s grossly unfair to expect them to do anything but to try to clean up the horrific mess that Ulyanov and Dzhugashvili inflicted upon them. Look at Germany – 20 years since reunification, and all of Germany’s resources continue to go solely towards cleaning up the rotten infrastructure and toxic waste dump that the Soviets converted East Germany into. And that was only a tiny fraction of the devastation the Soviets inflicted upon the planet. One look via Google Earth at all the unused inlets around Polyarny and Gadzhiyevo and Severomorsk will show abandoned ships left to rot, while myriad toxic wastes – including radioactive waste – seep into the surrounding water. Most of Murmansk oblast is a barren wasteland, poisoned beyond salvage for centuries. Arkhangelsk oblast is little better, and the transportation infrastructure is equivalent to that of the western USA 150 years ago. I know – I was there. And you expect Russia to focus on becoming the world’s finest military?
I apologize for not blindly expecting Russia to instantly become the best of everything. I honestly feel that to ask that of Russia’s people is unfair to them. Yes – they need effective defense capabilities, and they need to work towards improving their defense industry’s honesty, efficiency, and manufacturing processes. But wouldn’t buying a little outside help be an effective stopgap, while Russia’s own defense industry works to modernize? Especially if the purchase did NOT enslave Russia to “outside influences”, as the Bolshevik paranoids here might rant against? This purchase gives Russia some information they didn’t have before. If Italy were to cut off ALL contact with Russia the day after for all eternity, Russia would still have gained from the transaction.
So I ask you: Really – what’s the problem here?
- SirkoWhen Push Comes to Shove....!!!08:19, 16/05/2012There are three types of people here in this discussion. First being westernized fools in Russia who will buy any crap the western propaganda feeds them. The second being those who have no interest in Russia's rightful place on the global scene and feed nonsense propaganda such as NATO and the west have only the best for Russia and NATO is not the quintessential enemy. Finally, the third group who know that in the world of real politic and military affairs relying on someone else and their technology is simply a road to disaster. This nonsense that Russia is buying this western crap to copy the 'superior' technology proves the point. Why is Russia behind the eight ball? Answer being that the fools in the Kremlin have been naive and have swallowed the western crap, hook, line and sinker. Why did the Soviets not buy western tanks, ships, planes etc. but produced their own and the majority were far superior than the west.
Try this on.....When you need to rely on others for your weapons system and do not produce your own thereby employing your people and improving their skills you leave yourself open to disaster. History has many examples of this. The latest major example being the war between Britain and Argentina over the Falklands which originally belonged to Argentina known as the Malvenas. The Argentines had the advantage in that war due to the proximity of the island to their country. However, they lost bitterly because they did not have their own military industry. All their planes, missiles etc came from NATO countries such as the U.S. and France. All the Brits had to do is cry the blues to their NATO pals. Of course, the French and Americans immediately stopped supplying parts for weapons systems, missiles, and ammunition, etc...... Tah...!!! Dah...!!!
In the late '50s Canada produced the Avro ARROW a state of the art interceptor. Simply Google 'The Avro Arrow' and to this day it looks as great as it was then. Six were produced with the original five using American Pratt and Whitney engines. The first five were tested extensively and proved better than expected. Arrow Six was to have two special engines with thirty percent more thrust than the American engines, produced also by a Canadian Company, known as Orenda Engines which was part of the same state owned industry employing some 69,000 Canadians. Before Arrow Six could fly, nay, the very day it was suppose to go up the government of John George 'Dufusbaker' an Anti-Christ Tory (as all Tories are) cancelled the program and destroyed Canada's military industry and last hope and sovereignty. Consequently, today the Americans are not only sucking our resources dry but have been making tones of money for some fifty three years selling us their junk when we could have had our own and employing our own people. The present Harper government another Anti-Christ Tory has poured billions into the American Raptor project which is a Jack of all trades and Master of none turkey to be purchased by Canada at two hundred million a piece and the price is still rising.
Some five days after 'Dufusbaker' went on a fishing trip in Manitoba with D. Eisenhower the U.S president the Arrow project was cancelled and Canada's entire industry destroyed in a blink of and eye. Wonder what they discussed? Hahaha...!!! Like all true criminals the Tories sent in the torches and chopped up every one of the Arrows not leaving a trace of that great plane, then what would one expect from criminals, but destroy the evidence. Let me guess where the technology went. I know where the engineers went. My grandfather told me that as they were leaving the gate of the compound at AVRO Malton the American RATS were there hiring them on the spot. The main engineer Chamberlain went to NASA and the rest to the main American aviation corporations. In return for destroying the Arrow and Canada's independence (for if you do not have your own military industries you cannot be independent), the Americans gave Canada the Bowmark missile a defunct peace of crap which I could create in my back yard with my Physics students..
Moral of the story is....A country which does not control its own military industry is a country which exist only on paper and on the good will of its neighbours...and we know have far good will lasts when push comes to shove....:-)
P.S. I still have the original film on the manufacturing of the ARROWS. My grandfather worked on the ARROW a great plane that should have been and that is why I and all my children and my children's children shall have an abiding and everlasting hatred for Tories and traitors...
- lmNice post Sirko...00:10, 17/05/2012Precisely my point it will back fire big time on Russia. And who cause all this empty vessels in the military that spear no words in condemning the locally built UAV. Forgetting Israel did not get to the finish line in one day.
- arsanlupinSo that's the source of your rage - a family vendetta!02:39, 18/05/2012So now the truth is outted: your visceral hatred for the United States is all because 64 years ago your grandfather lost his job, and you twisted the real story of the Arrow into yet another paranoid delusional conspiracy theory – all in a feeble attempt to ‘justify’ your bigotry and blind hatred. You are a disgrace to all Russians - AND all Canadians.
- mrgenieOMG11:40, 16/05/2012If I see the comments here, how people battling each other, I really hope our world leaders show more respect and mutual understanding to each other.
As for Russian weaponry, yes it was very good, up to the 80's.
There's really no doubt about it, but in every single combat worldwide, despite enemies of NATO always used weapons by mass, never NATO lost a war militaristic. Political NATO lost a few wars here and there because in the West people get sick of wars pretty fast and force politicians to retreat. The biggest retreat was Vietnam, where NATO simply slaughtered soviet backed fighters and weaponry by a rate 1:50 at least. But the people in the West didn't want NATO/US to slaughter Soviet backed weaponry/fighters.
Other example: Korean war, despite USSR, CHINA and North Korea send in a multiple amount of Soviet weaponry, and forced NATO to withdrew initially, this overwhelming force of Soviet weaponry gut punched back by overwhelming technology.
Yugoslavia, despite 18 modern Russian fighters attacked 2 Dutch fighters, the dutch took down 3 of them, damaged 7 of them, and had the others to ran-off.
Iraq, supplied by Soviet weaponry to the teeth was no match for NATO, despite Iraq had much more Soviet weaponry then NATO send in.
NATO doesn't need the mass the Soviet Tech needs.
Soviet tech isn't bad, it's just a few decades behind the rest of the world. I really hope Russia can catch up with the rest of the world, as China is already building up and preparing the invasion of Russia between 2030 and 2035. We can only hope by that time, Russia will get support from NATO, because by 2030, it'll take China less then 6-8 weeks to walk into the center of Moscow.
- SirkoAlas...!!!07:40, 17/05/2012"..never NATO lost a war militaristic."
Alas, my good friend I do not know where you are from but has NATO won the war in Afghanistan? If so why are they still fighting and what are the Afghans using except old Soviet equipment, like the AK-47 against NATO's technology and they still cannot win. Hahahaha...!!!. Have they won the war in Iraq? If so why is there still mayhem in Iraq? Do you think they have won in Libya? Where is their victory? How about the Korean war, did they win that? If so they forgot to defeat North Korea. Tell them to try her on for size today and see what happens.
No! No! NATO is good at causing mayhem, destabilizing regions with tremendous suffering at the expense of the civilian population, but not so good at winning a war. Also, your statistics are skewed for they do not take into account that much of the losses in planes and equipment in those countries is the result of non Russian pilots who were not trained properly using Soviet equipment. The Iraqis had Soviet equipment of the 1950's and '60's. Tell NATO to take on Russian pilots with modern MIGs and Sukhoys. Why did the Fascists not get involved helping Sakashvili their RAT PROXY in Georgia? No! Russia is behind not because her equipment is inferior or because her industries cannot produce better equipment, rather she is behind for two reasons. The first being that she was betrayed from within and the second being the naivety and trusting nature of its people and leaders. You cannot trust Americans or their Wart NATO. Every commitment and promise made to Russia during the dissolution of the Soviet Union was broken by the U.S and its Wart NATO. Nothing new here in history, simply ask any of the native American tribes. The ones of course which have not been exterminated. :-)
- lmInvest home venture less outside00:00, 17/05/2012Russia may buy a large new consignment of unmanned aerial vehicles from Israel and 24 command and control systems worth around $50 million in the foreseeable future, a high ranking source in the Russian defense industry said on Wednesday.
Now quick point here and as i have said this will back fire on Russia in the long run because it can and will be used against Russia when the time comes and this is not a joke it will. And the Kremlin is aware of this hoping it does not back fire. Indonesia, Pakistan, and many more felt the other side of the deal when they ran afoul. Yes I agree most countries have some kind of foreign hardware in their military but we are all forgetting one thing here and very important Russia is not perceived as a friend and will not for the foreseeable future and this is where the trouble lies because Russia in unfairly targeted. The more Russia buys from the outside the more they box themselves in a corner when conflict start read between the lines….
Russia has to invest in its own this is where protection comes into play.
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